Curse

Abedeus · Jun 22, 2009, 04:34 PM // 16:34

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Originally Posted by Mordakai

LOL, I thought you were delusional with 2 million, so I rounded to 1/2.

I can't beleive that many people have multiple accounts, that's crazy talk!

But, since there is no way to prove it either way, I guess we'll just have to wait until GW2 comes out.

No, me and many people would even say that only 1 million of people purchased the game.

You remember that those 6 millions of copies = any of the GW games, right? It's not the amount of accounts or unique IPs.

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BTW, what makes you so sure that out of the 2 million who have bought GW, none will buy multiple copies of GW2?

Never said that, stop putting words in my mouth.

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Agreed. And I don't think GW2 will repeat the same mistake.

Because we're getting A LOT of press about GW2 now, concept arts, gameplay videos, profession and world info... NOT.

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Right, I agree, which is why when GW2 launches it will get LOTS of press.

And chocolate will fall from the sky and oceans will turn into milkshake.

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That's what people are waiting for, not EoTN.

You mean those hundreds that already left the game for better ones out of boredom?

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Look, again, these are all pay to play, and so do not directly compete with Guild Wars 2.

You can't be sure GW2 won't have microtransactions. GW already has - unlock packs (which I use for my second account, too bad that something broke and I paid for nothing and can't use Nightfall unlock pack...) and name changes, storage panels, hair and look change and bonus missions/items.

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The great thing about Guild Wars is you can buy it and play another game, too, since you don't feel forced to play by spending about $15 a month.

You pay for quality. That's why people playing $15 get almost instant support and weekly or otherwise regular updates and GM support (hehe, nothing like that in GW) and working Community Menagers. That's also why I paid 40 PLN to get NOTHING, and I have to wait till God knows when till I get my unlock pack.

If you don't see that, GW's popularity is constantly falling. Check metacritics - every next game received less reviews, because people didn't bother to review something nobody's interested in.

Yichi · Jun 22, 2009, 04:42 PM // 16:42

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Originally Posted by Avarre

True.

Not sure how it works for D2 though - uber dia spawns are dependent on game IP within the server. I'd assume Bnet works the same way for all the games, though.

The closed battle.net option for Ladder and Non Ladder characters is run on a series of servers. The open/single player/tcip games are hosted through ones computer. This is what allows for Uber dia to spawn randomly on different servers. There are a few different applications/places yo ucan go to that track the dia walks on the different servers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

You mean those hundreds that already left the game for better ones out of boredom?

I am curious to know what these "Better" games are that are out on the market, because the majority of them that have been released such as AoC, Fury, Warhammer, etc. have all failed miserably...

Mordakai · Jun 22, 2009, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Abedeus, we'll just have to wait and see. I'm tired of arguing about stuff we have no concrete data on. I could say that each Chapter got some new players, and lost some old players, and so the "interested base" (a broad term, I'll grant you) is greater than 2 million, but there is no way to prove that. I agree 6 million is probably an exaggeration on my part.

If less than 1 million people are buying everything, well, whatever works!

Anet is still making a profit, and I still get to enjoy Guild Wars 2 (assuming it won't suck).

Abedeus · Jun 22, 2009, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

I am curious to know what these "Better" games are that are out on the market, because the majority of them that have been released such as AoC, Fury, Warhammer, etc. have all failed miserably...

Only Fury failed so far and AoC got horrible opinions. WAR is decent, but they focused too much on PvE instead of improving the already great PvP aspect of the game.

Also, I do believe the better games mean something like Team Fortress 2, L4D, Demigod, Warhammer 40k and so long. "Better games" doesn't mean "Better MMOs".

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and so the "interested base" (a broad term, I'll grant you) is greater than 2 million, but there is no way to prove that. I agree 6 million is probably an exaggeration on my part.

Gah. 6 millions is not an exaggeration, considering that it's a blatantly untrue statement. Sold copies. Not players or accounts.

It's like talking to a brick...

Mordakai · Jun 22, 2009, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Gah. 6 millions is not an exaggeration, considering that it's a blatantly untrue statement. Sold copies. Not players or accounts.

It's like talking to a brick...

Seeing how I said 6 million interested people, not players, sold copies, or accounts, it is not "blatantly untrue." It's impossible to say how many people are "interested" in Guild Wars 2. It could be more than 6 million, for all you know.

It's true, I just took the "6 million people" number from total sold copies, which is not a good source, but I never said "players" (on purpose)!

I think your "less than a million" are interested statement is an understatement as well.

The truth is somewhere in between. Remember, my belief is that because GW2 is more like a traditional MMORPG, it will have greater interest. You believe only the people currently playing have any interest, which I find very hard to understand, especially since a game like Aion, with NO history, gets 4 million subscribers right away! Surely, GW2 can do just as well as Aion? (It could also fail, of course).

BTW, does anyone know how that 6 million figure is broken up? Does it include bundles, like the Trilogy or GW Prophecy + EoTN?

Cacheelma · Jun 23, 2009, 02:13 AM // 02:13

So both of you pulled numbers out of thin air? And...then... what?

Abedeus tried to put some sense into your number by assuming that you meant 6 million accounts created (and yes it counts all standalone expansions + GWEN, so if you buy a bundle of 3 games it counts as 3 accounts, whether you merge them or not doesn't matter.). But you keep telling him (and us) that you don't mean that. So where is the sense in your number, huh?

I could do the same thing and say that 99% of earth population care about a game called "X". Does that mean ANYTHING?

No.

fenix · Jun 23, 2009, 02:32 AM // 02:32

But you see Cacheelma, 99% of the earth population DO care about a game.

The game that is life.

WoooOOOOoooo philosphicallllll

Cacheelma · Jun 23, 2009, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

But you see Cacheelma, 99% of the earth population DO care about a game.

The game that is life.

WoooOOOOoooo philosphicallllll

Lol. How trolly of you. (is that a real word?)

shoyon456 · Jun 23, 2009, 07:18 AM // 07:18

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Originally Posted by Mordakai

Seeing how I said 6 million interested people, not players, sold copies, or accounts, it is not "blatantly untrue." It's impossible to say how many people are "interested" in Guild Wars 2.

But it is blatantly unfounded. NEVER trust a companies' numbers, or the government's for that matter. It's an accepted belief that the 6 mill number refers to sold copies of proph, factions, nf, and eotn (becaue anet has not repudiated it). The number of players that have played gw at one time or another is in total likely from 1.2 to 2 mill. It is unlikely that there were ever that many ppl playing at one time, and I believe the current active playerbase is 100k-200k and that is being very generous.

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Originally Posted by Mordakai

The truth is somewhere in between. Remember, my belief is that because GW2 is more like a traditional MMORPG, it will have greater interest. You believe only the people currently playing have any interest, which I find very hard to understand, especially since a game like Aion, with NO history, gets 4 million subscribers right away! Surely, GW2 can do just as well as Aion? (It could also fail, of course).

Exactly, GW2 is more of a traditional MMO, which means it will probably LOOSE players like myself who picked up gw because it was unique. This also means it will be directly competing with other MMO's, particularly Blizzard's. Blizzard wins in the MMO department, so your "greater interest in mainstream mmos" falls short. People will not buy GW2 because they liked gw1, they will buy it if it is a good game, or at least can measure up to its' competitors. And FYI, lately Anet's rep has been in the toilet, which means it will HURT gw2. Aion's clean history is a huge benefit . Aion is a good game from what I hear, and the management has not shown themselves incompetent as with gw.

As a side note, I know many individuals who left gw despite loving its' uniqueness, for companies that provide more content and better management. They are not returning for gw, for gw2, for anything with Anet's label.

Mordakai · Jun 23, 2009, 02:32 PM // 14:32

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Originally Posted by shoyon456

As a side note, I know many individuals who left gw despite loving its' uniqueness, for companies that provide more content and better management. They are not returning for gw, for gw2, for anything with Anet's label.

And there are many that will.

My final point is no one knows the number of people who will buy GW2.

This whole long debate started when someone stated "no one cares about GW2". (blatantly false, as I care, and I am at least one person).

I foolishly responded "6 million people care" and then had to spend my next twenty posts defending a dumb comment. Better if I acknowledged my mistake from the beginning, granted, (stupid pride!)

That said, my point has always been nobody knows how popular GW will be, and it's stupid to try and guess, on either end of the spectrum.

Arduin · Jun 23, 2009, 03:33 PM // 15:33

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Originally Posted by shoyon456

People will not buy GW2 because they liked gw1, ...

I know a LOT of people who will, including myself.

(just a random post from a random Guru member in answer to a random sentence...)

shoyon456 · Jun 23, 2009, 07:10 PM // 19:10

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Originally Posted by Arduinna

I know a LOT of people who will, including myself.

So, what do you enjoy about GW then? Instanced areas? The ability to get through the game and enjoy end-game content without massive grinding (has fallen short with eotn), etc...?

We don't know much about GW2 at this point, but we know it will not at all be like the original GW. If you already plan to buy it at this moment, then you are a fanboy, because many aspects of GW2 contradict the original gameplay elements of GW. It seems you are simply putting your trust in anet to make a "good game" and not a game with gameplay elements you prefer/enjoy.

Secondly, I was referring to the general public that have never even picked up GW. If Anet is able to sell only enough copies to current active GW players, it will flop. It needs to market itself to a wider audience, which is why I believe they went backwards (mainstream mmo) in order to attempt a WoW shakedown. Yes, anet has intentionally dodged confrontation with WoW and Blizzard, but the game they are making will be in direct competition with other mmos, and no longer a "niche" player market.

Mordakai · Jun 23, 2009, 07:40 PM // 19:40

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Originally Posted by shoyon456

So, what do you enjoy about GW then? Instanced areas? The ability to get through the game and enjoy end-game content without massive grinding (has fallen short with eotn), etc...?

It's not that complicated, shoyon456. I play Guild Wars because it is EASY* and FREE†.

I doubt I'm alone. Most complaints about Guild Wars focus on the facts there isn't enough to do once you finish the game. IF Anet can solve that problem with persistent areas, casual PvP, more frequent content updates, then it will succeed far beyond the original Guild Wars.

And perhaps even succeed beyond other MMOs.

*Easy in the sense of simple to play.

†Free in the sense of no monthly fee.

NoXiFy · Jun 25, 2009, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Uggg, don't spam the forums with silly stuff like that. Looks like a blog or something, you don't need to make a whole thread to say "some guy doesn't know what guild wars is!". Nobody I know in real life knows what GW is, although they ALL know what WoW is because of their excessive advertising. Also, lol @ Warez-bb... best site on the internetz besides /b/ase.

Mordakai · Jun 25, 2009, 05:27 AM // 05:27

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Originally Posted by NoXiFy

Uggg, don't spam the forums with silly stuff like that. Looks like a blog or something, you don't need to make a whole thread to say "some guy doesn't know what guild wars is!". Nobody I know in real life knows what GW is, although they ALL know what WoW is because of their excessive advertising. Also, lol @ Warez-bb... best site on the internetz besides /b/ase.

Yet, his statement that GW is a MMO caused less stir on Joystiq than it did here.

Go figure... 95 posts and counting.

If Anet made a MMO game about arguing, it would beat WoW hands down....

(joke, just in case anyone thinks I'm serious)

beatdownbob · Jun 25, 2009, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Somebody said something you didn't like about your favourite land of make believe, and you responded in a stereotypical fashion. Then you made a thread elsewhere to tell everybody that somebody said something you didn't like about your favourite land of make believe, and that you responded in a stereotypical fashion.

I look forward to this trend becoming the norm. Together we can turn all forums world wide into one huge meta forum, where can call on people from other forums to come to our aid and sign our posts in one big meta thumbs up.

Bryant Again · Jun 25, 2009, 11:16 AM // 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoyon456

As a side note, I know many individuals who left gw despite loving its' uniqueness, for companies that provide more content and better management. They are not returning for gw, for gw2, for anything with Anet's label.

Minorities of the gaming populace seldom impact one's sales, just look at the Wii.

Anyways.

There are a few chief things that's brought GW quite a lot of success:
-Being pretty and optimized
-Easy to get drawn in to
-"Free to play" is on the front of the box

If GW2 still has these three things, it's going to be fine. Couple this with largely good reviews and it's gonna boom.

Gigashadow · Jun 25, 2009, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Definitely don't underestimate the mental appeal of "no subscription fees". Look at how many people are playing Runescape, Runes of Magic, or Free Realms, which are hardly stellar games, but they can be played for free. Now, no subscription fees isn't the same thing as free, as you still have to pay for the box, but there is that appeal. And of course, people who don't want to pay a subscription fee, often end up chipping in a few bucks here and there to pay for little things in these "free" games, once they get hooked.

Personally I find it interesting that $15/month is "too expensive", but many people will happily spend hundreds or thousands of hours playing an inferior free game instead of a better one you have to pay for, as well as a bunch more time posting on the forums about it. It does show that the difference in what people feel their time is actually worth, is gigantic.

Mordakai · Jun 25, 2009, 09:20 PM // 21:20

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Originally Posted by Gigashadow

Definitely don't underestimate the mental appeal of "no subscription fees". Look at how many people are playing Runescape, Runes of Magic, or Free Realms, which are hardly stellar games, but they can be played for free. Now, no subscription fees isn't the same thing as free, as you still have to pay for the box, but there is that appeal. And of course, people who don't want to pay a subscription fee, often end up chipping in a few bucks here and there to pay for little things in these "free" games, once they get hooked.

Personally I find it interesting that $15/month is "too expensive", but many people will happily spend hundreds or thousands of hours playing an inferior free game instead of a better one you have to pay for, as well as a bunch more time posting on the forums about it. It does show that the difference in what people feel their time is actually worth, is gigantic.

Or, that I am willing to drop $20 for a face change and Menagerie unlock in Guild Wars, but refuse to pay $15 for WoW.

But it's not all about money. If I enjoyed WoW more, I would pay for it. And some games (WaR, for example) I wouldn't play if it was free. I disliked it that much.

I'm actually tempted to cough of $15 for Conan again to see if the newest update is any good. Plus, it sounds like once you get to level 50, you can make any character at level 50! How cool is that?